Talk:Haven Trooper
Ideas for added content: As much of Metal Gear Solid 4 is meant to produce a Psychological effect on the player, it may be a good idea to take some MGS4 situations and characters and put them under the Pysch lens. Why would Liquid Ocelot prefer a special Army of women? Because most of the soldiers at the time were MEN, and all societies tend to treat women differently based upon the idea that women are either weaker, or meant to be protected, and this can give these clearly superior women a psychological advantage over their opponents, who more often than not are men. Men who likely haven't had time in the midst of the battlefield to relieve sexual frustrations, and the FROGS obviously have been altered to fit the high standards of feminine beauty. This, clearly gives them an edge, and can even give the player a feeling of discomfort as he's forced to fight for his life. Impact on player: Their cries and yelps are obviously louder than the other enemies, and when they die, they burst violently into flames, and there is much to be sympathized with them, and most players only have experience of shooting men, and or only fighting one token female in any game. Thus, some players sensitive to harming women, will probably take the harder method of defeating them, by either avoiding them or by tranquilizing them. Furthermore, they are a subversion of expectations, as players are used to fighting generic figures that could either be men or women (there are still woman's restrooms in all bases of Metal Gear Solid series), and these are clearly and blatantly shown to be women. :This isn't really the place for a discussion of this caliber (you might be better off over at www.metalgearsolid.org, though judging by the average post over there you'd probably be wasting your time), but I may as well chip in my two cents. :While this is incredibly interesting, there are a few points I'm not sure I agree with personally. Mainly you're comment that the FROGS have "obviously... been altered to fit the high standards of feminine beauty." I think this typically depends on what you're view of beauty is, which (as the saying goes) is in the eye of the beholder. The odd masks that they wear detract from the beauty aspect in my opinion. :Unfortunately, judging from the average MGS fan (or, indeed, the average video gamer in general), Kojima's attempt at creating a type of enemy which the player may be hesitant to attack was most likely wasted. From where I'm sitting, it seems that most players don't really care what they're shooting at, as long as it is something to shoot. It's a shame, really. --Fantomas 22:16, 18 February 2009 (UTC) ::Yeah, unfortunately. I actually did not play MGS4 at all because I knew you had to fight mainly women a lot of the times. Though, I don't have a problem with fighting women as long as something like MGS1(Wolf), 2(Olga), 3(The Boss), MGSPO(Elisa/Ursula), etc where the the either Snake or Big Boss at least shows some compassion, empathy, regret, etc for having to fight them; and in those MGS games, the female characters at least sort of died in a "good way". ::In MGS4, needless to say, I'm actually extremely sensitive at this type of this thing so I was sad that it seemed like the female characters were added as "fan service" rather than anything, I mean they didn't really get that "happy-death-ending" the other female characters in the MGS series had and they didn't really contribute or get involved much to the actual story at all, unlike the other female enemies in the previous MGS games. ::I wish they would have handled the FROGs and the Beauty and the Beasts like how they handled the other female enemies in previous MGS series but they didn't. If (for example) they made Snake hesitate and even outright refuse to harm the women with lethal methods, that'd be great but atlas it seems whoever's idea was to add female enemies did it just for the "fan service" rather than anything else. :: So yes, I am extremely sensitive... I hated MGS4. Glad to see others who show some concern about the lovely women of MGS4 and how and why they're being represented and used in the game. 05:42, September 17, 2009 (UTC) :: :: I agree about not shooting them. Usually, like in Star Wars Battlefront, I shoot the female enemies, but the FROGs' screaming and incinerating caused me to show sympathy and only tranq them. I agree with that actualy.. Although like Fantomas said I don't think many people will see it that way, which is definitly a shame to put it lightly. Personaly I know what you're getting at, because I'm like that myself. I can think of a few instances in games where i've felt discomfort at having to harm female characters. I'm no Metal Gear expert or anything, I only own Metal Gear Solid (PS1) and Metal Gear Solid 2:Substance (Xbox). But after reading this I thought about how Snake tends to react when faced with female opponents. He definitly goes easier on them. He cleary feels guilty after killing Sniper Wolf, since he did it almoast completely out of rage for her shooting Meryl. And then theres the fight with Olga on the tanker in MGS2, if that had been a male character do you think he would have had him throw his gear overboard? Maybe. Would he have hesitated to shoot when he went for his knife? No, he'd have shot him in the face instantly. My thinking here is that Liquid Ocelot may have chosen to build an army purely made up of women in an attempt to deter snake, or at least make his job that much harder emotionally.-- 23:01, 18 July 2009 (UTC) * In my opinion, the beauty thing - their form-fitting suits - are just fanservice, same with the Beauty's jumpsuits. Radioactive Zombie 23:32, 18 February 2009 (UTC) Does anybody know if FROG stands for something or has it been put in capitals for other reasons? --Bigbossash 16:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC) Anyone have any idea why their helmets have a 56 on them?--Bpudes77 01:59, 16 April 2009 (UTC) any idea what connection,if any, this unit has to do with the "otselotovaya khvatka" from that one tv spot? ::In my personal opinion, if someone is shooting at you, you shoot right back. That they're women doesn't change that they're trying to kill you, so in a way, it's sexist NOT to shoot them. When you're supposed to be fighting for your life these things are irrelevant, women, men, children, they're all equals. And if they point a gun at you, they should all be treated to the same courtesy. Lessthan3 ::Since this discussion has kinda been reopened I'll offer my opinion on the subject. I have to agree with Lessthan3 in that to shoot them should be no different than shooting male soldiers. I think Kojima was just trying to go against the norm by having the elite soldiers and bosses be female, but he really messed it up when he decided to show off their physical characteristics, destroying any chance of seeing their inclusion in the game as any sort of philosophical statement. He did the same thing with the B&B Corps, ruining any potential interest in their characters for the sake of TnA shots (the whole photo shoot thing just proves it), and the story suffers as a result. ::It is possible its supposed have a psychological effect on soldiers, story-wise, but they never provided any kind of reason why they were exclusively women. Perhaps it would have been better to female and male FROGs? ::Bluerock 10:26, January 7, 2010 (UTC) True, but there can be a thousand reasons why they are exclusively female. Women in general are more adept at multi-tasking, and are more acrobatic than men. In my personal experience women have also been known to be extremely callous when they want to be, with seemingly no regard for the damage they're inflicting on people around them. :< And I think no one can argue that women are way less likely to be distracted by a member of the opposite sex. Maybe making the FROG's an all female unit was in order to have an army that is always completely focused on what they're doing, even when they're doing many things at once. Lessthan3 Well, Muammar Gaddafi had an entire group of bodyguards for woman. 16:17, February 28, 2013 (UTC) How close are the FROGs? I found it a bit interesting how much they care for eachother, there was one scene after you've beat the game where they're fishing them out of the water, and one FROG is sitting in a boat holding another FROG and stroking her head. Doesn't seem like something people do if they're just business acquaintances. I'm thinking they're all very close. Lessthan3 05:41, March 28, 2010 (UTC) I thought she was stroking her "sister" out of sheer relief from being controlled by that AI and then being freed...I think.Dagoth11 01:03, February 16, 2011 (UTC) The FROGs aren't the Sacred Band of Thebes 2.0 here lol. Training and/or serving with someone where your survival depends on one another creates a sibling-like bond between you and that person or persons, a bond that isn't easily described in words. Although portrayed differently, it was the same as the monologue between Ed and Jonathan when Ed remarked how they were "good partners" and Jonathan responded with "No, good friends". Ed and Jonathan are brothers in arms, just like the FROGs are sisters in arms. By the end of the game, SOP is shut down and the surviving FROGs, with their nanomachines having ceased to function, have likely succumbed to severe emotional trauma in addition to physical injury. What you're seeing is one "sister" comforting another, but due to women being more open in how they express themselves, she's doing it in what the male mind perceives as an intimate or romantic manner. Men tend not to express themselves so openly unless it's a significant other or child on the receiving end. Ghost Leader (talk) 15:54, September 10, 2012 (UTC) Question about them.. Are the Haven trooper's acrobatics natural, or are they enhanced somehow? Also, is it possible to be as acrobatic as them? What would you have to do? Dagoth11 01:09, February 16, 2011 (UTC) :They use powered suits to enhance their agility, similar to the Arsenal Tengu. --Bluerock 09:38, February 17, 2011 (UTC) :: Oh ok. Is it also possible to be as acrobatic as them? Curious.Dagoth11 22:02, February 17, 2011 (UTC) :::I don't believe anyone can physically jump to the same heights that they can without assistance, but it's more than likely that they possessed some natural skill with their other acrobatic feats. --Bluerock 22:24, February 17, 2011 (UTC) ::: ::: Interesting..what are the helmets made of? The whole undersuit? :::How do you think the "claws" on the shoes/boots are installed? ---Dagoth11 Content corrections Whoever the jackass was that said "However, if wearing the Young Snake FaceCamo, they seem to enjoy the action." in regards to the cooter-grab, make sure that troll gets banned and blocked. We don't need fucktards like me going to their PS3s, dusting off their old copies of MGS4, and be stupid enough to give shit like this a try only to find out they were played by a grade-A, text-book, butt-hurt, fucking fag, talking out of his loose, lube wad infested ass. LMAO! :I only added it in because I thought that actually was what happened (It was stated to be the case on TvTropes). I had absolutely no intention of pranking anyone. However, I will make up for it by deleting it from TvTropes, if it is indeed false. Weedle McHairybug 11:24, April 30, 2011 (UTC) :This is why people need to actually PLAY games before they add information like that. -- 11:42, April 30, 2011 (UTC) :It will take me quite a while to play Metal Gear Solid 4, or heck, any PS3 game as of right now. First off, they don't allow renting of systems anymore, so I can't just rent a PS3 system. I'm not going to pay a lot of money for a system that I only intend to play one game on, nevermind a system that's not nintendo. I also can't borrow it from my friend, since he's currently using it (my friend is, however, willing to let me borrow his PS2 if I ask, which means I can use it to verify various stuff on Metal Gear Solid 2/Metal Gear Solid 3). As soon as a new console for the Sony series is released, and thus allows my friend to possibly get that new system and thus allow his PS3 to be borrowed, I will make sure I verify various claims in regards to things. Weedle McHairybug 11:47, April 30, 2011 (UTC) :Is it really necessary to be so profane? You should be the one banned for that ghastly comment. Ghost Leader (talk) 15:57, September 10, 2012 (UTC) What Happens Next. As We Can See The Last Thing That Happened Is We Can See Them being Pulled Out Of Outer Haven And Being Rescued By The U.S Military What Proably Happened To Them. :Is that a question? If so, they were presumably arrested and imprisoned for taking part in Liquid's insurrection. --Bluerock 01:01, April 26, 2012 (UTC) :Sorry Just created An Account There Is Another Thing when The AI is destroyed By FOXALIVE Weirdly Enough They Are The Only Sop Wearers That Go into A Tempoary Mental Breakdown Could Be An Explanation For one of them Swimming Near The Missouri in the custene after Octacon Explains About Sunny programing FOXALIVE To Keep The Physical Human Brain Intact And Destroying The Separated SOP You Can Hear Hear Her in Pain When She Is being Put On The Zodiac And A Marine Asking Her If She Was Okay {Definatly Not she Could Barely Move] So The AI and SOP Did somehow Control Them More Than Other People.I mean No One Would Jump Off A Ship just Randomley And Start Swimming when Theres Like 2000 zodiacs And 3 choppers Waiting for You . ::I really can't stand people that capitalize every single word, it makes everything they type a nightmare to read. At any rate, if the Genome Soldiers are any indication, the US military will probably buy them out, too, setting up for Shadow Moses 2.0 or something. Ghost Leader (talk) 16:00, September 10, 2012 (UTC)